Date   

Introducing the CIP at Embedded Linux Conference 2016

Yoshitake Kobayashi
 

Hello,

We have made a presentation at Embedded Linux Conference 2016 to introducing the CIP project. Here is a link to the slide.
http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/Introducing%20the%20Civil%20Infrastructure%20Platform.pdf

If you have any questions, please feel free ask us.

Best regards,
Yoshi


Question about Hyperloop and standard

Zhipeng Huang <zhipengh512@...>
 

Hi all,

I have read throught the CIP slide in embedded con and quite curious about the project. One question would be related to Hyperloop, since transportation is a big part of civil infra, are there any ideas around Hyperloop ecosystem ? Sensors, control system? I just asking this since I noticed there has been a hyperloop pod competition going on and its design is open sourced.

Another question is related standard. On page 7 and the right colume, there is a section on standardization. Are there any thoughts on what CIP want to standardize?

THX :)

--
Zhipeng (Howard) Huang

Standard Engineer
IT Standard & Patent/IT Prooduct Line
Huawei Technologies Co,. Ltd
Office: Huawei Industrial Base, Longgang, Shenzhen

(Previous)
Research Assistant
Mobile Ad-Hoc Network Lab, Calit2
University of California, Irvine
Office: Calit2 Building Room 2402

OpenStack, OPNFV, OpenDaylight, OpenCompute Aficionado


Re: Question about Hyperloop and standard

Yoshitake Kobayashi
 

Hi Zhipeng,

Thanks for your interest in CIP project.
We currently do not have a concrete idea for hyperloop project. However,
as you can see our target systems on page 8, we will focus to develop a
common "base-layer" for embedded systems which include control systems.
I think this types of control systems might be required by hyperloop.

Regarding standard on page 7, we think we need to collaborate with other
related project, for example to support industrial network communication
protocols and/or industrial IoT middleware. You can find some related
projects on page 22 which are indicated by green color.

Best regards,
Yoshi

On 2016/04/13 9:35, Zhipeng Huang wrote:
Hi all,

I have read throught the CIP slide in embedded con and quite curious about the project. One question would be related to Hyperloop, since transportation is a big part of civil infra, are there any ideas around Hyperloop ecosystem ? Sensors, control system? I just asking this since I noticed there has been a hyperloop pod competition going on and its design is open sourced.

Another question is related standard. On page 7 and the right colume, there is a section on standardization. Are there any thoughts on what CIP want to standardize?

THX :)

--
Zhipeng (Howard) Huang

Standard Engineer
IT Standard & Patent/IT Prooduct Line
Huawei Technologies Co,. Ltd
Email: huangzhipeng@huawei.com <mailto:huangzhipeng@huawei.com>
Office: Huawei Industrial Base, Longgang, Shenzhen

(Previous)
Research Assistant
Mobile Ad-Hoc Network Lab, Calit2
University of California, Irvine
Email: zhipengh@uci.edu <mailto:zhipengh@uci.edu>
Office: Calit2 Building Room 2402

OpenStack, OPNFV, OpenDaylight, OpenCompute Aficionado


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CIP endeavor decision

Matthias Tafelmeier <matthias.tafelmeier@...>
 

Hello

who I am: I work as a operartions engineer at a data centre in Europe
and formerly I worked for several years as a development engineer in SDN
networking area.

Your project has caught my attention for its corageous mission. I am
strongly interested in bringing forward civic from a computing
technicial perspective and I see me fit to do so.

I haven't had any experience in working in linux collab projects yet and
there are quite many projects in linux collab. So to help me decide if
participating in your project is the right endeavor for me: please,
answer me a few questions, although those can seem a little blunt.

Is it at all imperative for you gathering together individuals to solve
technicial intricacies or is it rather a tightly financial sponsor
interests guided project, and therefore for the members of the sponsors?
Are extraneous forces really welcome?

To what level in software terms do you want to bring about innovations?
You are speaking abstractly about a platform and glue mechanisms. To
what extend? Down to the driver level?

Are there opportunities for individuals or is it rather meant to cheaply
tap into ressources? Can one ascend therein?
<


--
BR

Matthias Tafelmeier


A bit of housekeeping

Paul Sherwood
 

Hi all,
I appreciate that this project is just getting started, so please just take the following as gentle nagging:

- https://www.cip-project.org/news does not appear to be working. I'm aware of at least one announcement [1] that should be appearing there, and expect there are others too.

- is there a public wiki anywhere, or should we go ahead and set one up?

br
Paul

[1] https://www.cip-project.org/news/blogs/2016/08/ben-hutchings-becomes-first-maintainer-civil-infrastructure-platform’s-super-long


Re: A bit of housekeeping

Agustin Benito Bethencourt <agustin.benito@...>
 

Hi,

On 25/08/16 13:23, Paul Sherwood wrote:
Hi all,
I appreciate that this project is just getting started, so please just
take the following as gentle nagging:

- https://www.cip-project.org/news does not appear to be working. I'm
aware of at least one announcement [1] that should be appearing there,
and expect there are others too.

- is there a public wiki anywhere, or should we go ahead and set one up?
The wiki was a topic of the f2f meeting yesterday. I will follow up on this. There is one private that will be opened, from what I understood.


br
Paul

[1]
https://www.cip-project.org/news/blogs/2016/08/ben-hutchings-becomes-first-maintainer-civil-infrastructure-platform’s-super-long

_______________________________________________
cip-dev mailing list
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--
Agustin Benito Bethencourt
Principal Consultant - FOSS at Codethink
agustin.benito@codethink.co.uk


Re: A bit of housekeeping

Yoshitake Kobayashi
 

On 2016/08/25 20:23, Paul Sherwood wrote:
Hi all,
I appreciate that this project is just getting started, so please just take the following as gentle nagging:

- https://www.cip-project.org/news does not appear to be working. I'm aware of at least one announcement [1] that should be appearing there, and expect there are others too.
I agree. The news page need to have all links to "Announce", "Blog" and "Events"
as an index. It makes much easier to access the information.

-- Yoshi


- is there a public wiki anywhere, or should we go ahead and set one up?

br
Paul

[1] https://www.cip-project.org/news/blogs/2016/08/ben-hutchings-becomes-first-maintainer-civil-infrastructure-platform’s-super-long
_______________________________________________
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Re: CIP Endeavour decision

Paul Sherwood
 

Matthias,

I only came across your email from June [1] today, which is sad, because if I had seen it earlier I would have encouraged others to reply to your reasonable questions.

I'm quoting your original text below, and hopefully this will kick the discussion into action.

who I am: I work as a operartions engineer at a data centre in Europe
and formerly I worked for several years as a development engineer in SDN
networking area.

Your project has caught my attention for its corageous mission. I am
strongly interested in bringing forward civic from a computing
technicial perspective and I see me fit to do so.
I haven't had any experience in working in linux collab projects yet and
there are quite many projects in linux collab. So to help me decide if
participating in your project is the right endeavor for me: please,
answer me a few questions, although those can seem a little blunt.
I think it is very wise for anyone considering participating in a community, to understand the agenda and scope before committing. So your questions are entirely reasonable. I'm not sure CIP yet has thorough answers, but I will try....

Is it at all imperative for you gathering together individuals to solve
technicial intricacies or is it rather a tightly financial sponsor
interests guided project, and therefore for the members of the sponsors?
CIP is a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project, with a small number of founder member organisations [2] who are in effect the sponsors. As you can see from [2] the emphasis is currently on companies rather than individuals.

Are extraneous forces really welcome?
I consider myself an extraneous force also, and am waiting to see what the answer is :-)

Our lack of response to your original email must have been a disappointing welcome for you, and I hope some other participants will respond to clarify properly.

To what level in software terms do you want to bring about innovations?
You are speaking abstractly about a platform and glue mechanisms. To
what extend? Down to the driver level?
Overall I think CIP is aiming more to increase confidence and reliability in relevant software, rather than bring about innovations. IMO it would be clearly unwise to put absolutely latest/unstable software into (for example) a nuclear power station before verifying its performance over a period of time. But I think we *need* to see some innovations in processes, and validation, and reproducibility, and long term maintenance of deep systems software - including all the way down to how driver level code is done.

Others may disagree of course - i hope they speak up! :)

Are there opportunities for individuals or is it rather meant to cheaply
tap into ressources? Can one ascend therein?
For CIP I must leave this to other members. However you may be interested a separate thread of discussions on another community list, about Trustable Software Engineering [2] which I think has some complementary and overlapping aims. For sure I can say that individual contributors are welcome there, and I'm hoping that the content will prove to be of interest to the CIP community also.

br
Paul


[1] http://lists.cip-project.org/pipermail/cip-dev/2016-June/000003.html
[2] https://www.cip-project.org/faq
[3] https://lists.veristac.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/trustable-software


Re: CIP Endeavour decision

Noriaki Fukuyasu <fukuyasu@...>
 

Hi Paul

Thanks for bring this back up :)

Hi Mathias

SO SORRY for not responding to your email for a long time.

>Are extraneous forces really welcome?

You ARE very welcome :)
We are looking to reach out to more friends to work together.

>Are there opportunities for individuals or is it rather meant to cheaply
>tap into ressources? Can one ascend therein?

Yes, the participation of individual developer is very welcome.
You will see the technical discussions will be started to be thrown to this mailing list from now on. So we are looking forward to collaborate with you!

regards

Nori


On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Paul Sherwood <paul.sherwood@...> wrote:
Matthias,

I only came across your email from June [1] today, which is sad, because if I had seen it earlier I would have encouraged others to reply to your reasonable questions.

I'm quoting your original text below, and hopefully this will kick the discussion into action.

who I am: I work as a operartions engineer at a data centre in Europe
and formerly I worked for several years as a development engineer in SDN
networking area.

Your project has caught my attention for its corageous mission. I am
strongly interested in bringing forward civic from a computing
technicial perspective and I see me fit to do so.

I haven't had any experience in working in linux collab projects yet and
there are quite many projects in linux collab. So to help me decide if
participating in your project is the right endeavor for me: please,
answer me a few questions, although those can seem a little blunt.

I think it is very wise for anyone considering participating in a community, to understand the agenda and scope before committing. So your questions are entirely reasonable. I'm not sure CIP yet has thorough answers, but I will try....

Is it at all imperative for you gathering together individuals to solve
technicial intricacies or is it rather a tightly financial sponsor
interests guided project, and therefore for the members of the sponsors?

CIP is a Linux Foundation Collaborative Project, with a small number of founder member organisations [2] who are in effect the sponsors. As you can see from [2] the emphasis is currently on companies rather than individuals.

Are extraneous forces really welcome?

I consider myself an extraneous force also, and am waiting to see what the answer is :-)

Our lack of response to your original email must have been a disappointing welcome for you, and I hope some other participants will respond to clarify properly.

To what level in software terms do you want to bring about innovations?
You are speaking abstractly about a platform and glue mechanisms. To
what extend? Down to the driver level?

Overall I think CIP is aiming more to increase confidence and reliability in relevant software, rather than bring about innovations. IMO it would be clearly unwise to put absolutely latest/unstable software into (for example) a nuclear power station before verifying its performance over a period of time. But I think we *need* to see some innovations in processes, and validation, and reproducibility, and long term maintenance of deep systems software - including all the way down to how driver level code is done.

Others may disagree of course - i hope they speak up! :)

Are there opportunities for individuals or is it rather meant to cheaply
tap into ressources? Can one ascend therein?

For CIP I must leave this to other members. However you may be interested a separate thread of discussions on another community list, about Trustable Software Engineering [2] which I think has some complementary and overlapping aims. For sure I can say that individual contributors are welcome there, and I'm hoping that the content will prove to be of interest to the CIP community also.

br
Paul


[1] http://lists.cip-project.org/pipermail/cip-dev/2016-June/000003.html
[2] https://www.cip-project.org/faq
[3] https://lists.veristac.io/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/trustable-software

_______________________________________________
cip-dev mailing list
cip-dev@...
https://lists.cip-project.org/mailman/listinfo/cip-dev



--
Noriaki Fukuyasu

The Linux Foundation
Twitter: nori_fukuyasu
Facebook: linuxfoundationjp

Please visit our web sites:


Very interesting thread about different kernel maintenance strategies for corporate usage

Agustin Benito Bethencourt <agustin.benito@...>
 

Hi,

this thread is a gem, in my opinion. Please read it. It will become important for CIP in the coming months.

Link: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/ltsi-dev/2016-September/005786.html

It will help you understand the different strategies that Linaro, LTSI or SUSE are following and the opinions for each one of those approaches of key kernel developers.

Best Regards

--
Agustin Benito Bethencourt
Principal Consultant - FOSS at Codethink
agustin.benito@codethink.co.uk


Introduction

Ben Hutchings <ben.hutchings@...>
 

I've been asked to introduce myself to the list, before getting into
discussions. So here's a very brief summary.

I've been working on the Linux kernel for about 10 years, including
co-maintenance of Debian's kernel package for most of that time. Debian
provides security support for each stable release for 5 years, and in
support of that I backported many fixes to 2.6.32-longterm and took on
maintenance of the 3.2-longterm and 3.16-longterm branches.

I'm now adding another part-time role as lead kernel maintainer for the
CIP. I look forward to working with you all to establish a project and
process that can extend the support lifetime even further.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Software Developer, Codethink Ltd.


Re: Introduction

Daniel Sangorrin
 

Hi Ben,

I've been asked to introduce myself to the list, before getting into
discussions. So here's a very brief summary.

I've been working on the Linux kernel for about 10 years, including
co-maintenance of Debian's kernel package for most of that time. Debian
provides security support for each stable release for 5 years, and in
support of that I backported many fixes to 2.6.32-longterm and took on
maintenance of the 3.2-longterm and 3.16-longterm branches.

I'm now adding another part-time role as lead kernel maintainer for the
CIP. I look forward to working with you all to establish a project and
process that can extend the support lifetime even further.

Ben.
Welcome to the CIP project. It's great to have such an experienced maintainer
in the project. Looking forward to working with you too!

Best regards,
Daniel

--
IoT Technology center
Toshiba Corp. Industrial ICT solutions,
Daniel SANGORRIN



--
Ben Hutchings
Software Developer, Codethink Ltd.


_______________________________________________
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https://lists.cip-project.org/mailman/listinfo/cip-dev


Re: Introduction

Agustin Benito Bethencourt <agustin.benito@...>
 

Hi,

On 15/09/16 08:50, Daniel Sangorrin wrote:
Hi Ben,

I've been asked to introduce myself to the list, before getting into
discussions. So here's a very brief summary.

I've been working on the Linux kernel for about 10 years, including
co-maintenance of Debian's kernel package for most of that time. Debian
provides security support for each stable release for 5 years, and in
support of that I backported many fixes to 2.6.32-longterm and took on
maintenance of the 3.2-longterm and 3.16-longterm branches.

I'm now adding another part-time role as lead kernel maintainer for the
CIP. I look forward to working with you all to establish a project and
process that can extend the support lifetime even further.

Ben.
Welcome to the CIP project. It's great to have such an experienced maintainer
in the project. Looking forward to working with you too!
Daniel, can you tell us a little about yourself?

My name is Agustín Benito Bethencourt. I represent Codethink at CIP. I've managed teams-programs-projects for some years ago, the last in the open.

I am looking forward to find out how we are going to deal with this outstanding challenge, keeping a Linux system alive and healthy for many years in mission critical environments. I think it is an exciting one.

Best Regards

Agustin


Best regards,
Daniel

--
IoT Technology center
Toshiba Corp. Industrial ICT solutions,
Daniel SANGORRIN



--
Ben Hutchings
Software Developer, Codethink Ltd.


_______________________________________________
cip-dev mailing list
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https://lists.cip-project.org/mailman/listinfo/cip-dev

_______________________________________________
cip-dev mailing list
cip-dev@lists.cip-project.org
https://lists.cip-project.org/mailman/listinfo/cip-dev
--
Agustin Benito Bethencourt
Principal Consultant - FOSS at Codethink
agustin.benito@codethink.co.uk


Re: Introduction

Domenico Andreoli <domenico.andreoli@...>
 

Hi all,

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:30:59AM +0200, Agustin Benito Bethencourt wrote:
On 15/09/16 08:50, Daniel Sangorrin wrote:
Hi Ben,

I've been working on the Linux kernel for about 10 years, including
co-maintenance of Debian's kernel package for most of that time. Debian
provides security support for each stable release for 5 years, and in
support of that I backported many fixes to 2.6.32-longterm and took on
maintenance of the 3.2-longterm and 3.16-longterm branches.

I'm now adding another part-time role as lead kernel maintainer for the
CIP. I look forward to working with you all to establish a project and
process that can extend the support lifetime even further.
Welcome to the CIP project. It's great to have such an experienced maintainer
in the project. Looking forward to working with you too!
Daniel, can you tell us a little about yourself?

My name is Agustín Benito Bethencourt. I represent Codethink at CIP. I've
managed teams-programs-projects for some years ago, the last in the open.
My name is Domenico Andreoli, I've been using Linux since 1995 and
actively contributed to Debian for about a decade. I've always worked
with Linux, on Linux, for Linux, thanks to Linux, mainly in the embedded
context but I learned that without the necessary shared values, Linux
is not fun at all.

Although I'm not really active nowdays, my FOSS imprinting imposes me
to at least observe and keep me informed. So I'm here, just representing
myself, with bags full of 2 cents.

I am looking forward to find out how we are going to deal with this
outstanding challenge, keeping a Linux system alive and healthy for many
years in mission critical environments. I think it is an exciting one.
Yes, very exciting.

Do we recognize that big irons and small IoT leaves are in the same
need also here?

Kind regards,
Domenico

--
3B10 0CA1 8674 ACBA B4FE FCD2 CE5B CF17 9960 DE13


Re: Introduction

Noriaki Fukuyasu <fukuyasu@...>
 

Hi Ben

Welcome on board! Thank you very much for joining the team.
We are all very excited to have you at this project :)

Hi all:

My name is Noriaki (Nori) Fukuyasu. I work at The Linux Foundation.
I am currently helping the CIP members to operate this project.. 
If anyone has any thoughts on CIP (in terms of the project operation) please let me know.
Also if any company wish to support this project as a corporate member, please let me know.

Thanks!

Nori





On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 8:10 PM, Ben Hutchings <ben.hutchings@...> wrote:
I've been asked to introduce myself to the list, before getting into
discussions.  So here's a very brief summary.

I've been working on the Linux kernel for about 10 years, including
co-maintenance of Debian's kernel package for most of that time.  Debian
provides security support for each stable release for 5 years, and in
support of that I backported many fixes to 2.6.32-longterm and took on
maintenance of the 3.2-longterm and 3.16-longterm branches.

I'm now adding another part-time role as lead kernel maintainer for the
CIP.  I look forward to working with you all to establish a project and
process that can extend the support lifetime even further.

Ben.

--
Ben Hutchings
Software Developer, Codethink Ltd.


_______________________________________________
cip-dev mailing list
cip-dev@...
https://lists.cip-project.org/mailman/listinfo/cip-dev



--
Noriaki Fukuyasu

The Linux Foundation
Tel: +81-80-4350-1133
Twitter: nori_fukuyasu
Facebook: linuxfoundationjp

Please visit our web sites:


Use cases behind CIP story

Agustin Benito Bethencourt <agustin.benito@...>
 

Hi,

CIP is doing a significant effort to be present in many events to explain what are the motivations and goals of the group. The technical activity is about to start so there is very little to show and it will be the case for some time.

What can we focus on the coming months from the communication point of view?

I think there is a huge value in advertising the use cases that justify the commitment from companies like Toshiba, Hitachi and Siemens in CIP.

Some of those use cases are completely unknown for a wide range of developers, even many of those who are "Open Source veterans".

By exposing some of the challenges involved in those use cases CIP would not just provide a meaningful inside about our environment but also the opportunity to have a fruitful conversation with many of those engineers who might think that CIP idea of a Super Long Term Support kernel (system) is "anti-cultural".

So I would like to encourage CIP main drivers to provide and advertise some of those unique use cases. I find them extremely interesting. I hope many others will too.

Best Regards
--
Agustin Benito Bethencourt
Principal Consultant - FOSS at Codethink
agustin.benito@codethink.co.uk


Re: Use cases behind CIP story

Noriaki Fukuyasu <fukuyasu@...>
 

Hi Agustin

I think this is an extremely helpful post.

Why don't we start bring the stories of "Linux in the civil infrastructures in the world" together, and start a series of blog posts at the CIP website?

If people/companies are willing to contribute the stories, I would be more than happy to set up a blog section to the CIP web.
I would be very interested in hearing & promoting the use cases regardless of members and non-members. 

Then, we can talk about those stories at the events we are participating in.

regards

Nori



On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Agustin Benito Bethencourt <agustin.benito@...> wrote:
Hi,

CIP is doing a significant effort to be present in many events to explain what are the motivations and goals of the group. The technical activity is about to start so there is very little to show and it will be the case for some time.

What can we focus on the coming months from the communication point of view?

I think there is a huge value in advertising the use cases that justify the commitment from companies like Toshiba, Hitachi and Siemens in CIP.

Some of those use cases are completely unknown for a wide range of developers, even many of those who are "Open Source veterans".

By exposing some of the challenges involved in those use cases CIP would not just provide a meaningful inside about our environment but also the opportunity to have a fruitful conversation with many of those engineers who might think that CIP idea of a Super Long Term Support kernel (system) is "anti-cultural".

So I would like to encourage CIP main drivers to provide and advertise some of those unique use cases. I find them extremely interesting. I hope many others will too.

Best Regards
--
Agustin Benito Bethencourt
Principal Consultant - FOSS at Codethink
agustin.benito@...
_______________________________________________
cip-dev mailing list
cip-dev@...
https://lists.cip-project.org/mailman/listinfo/cip-dev



--
Noriaki Fukuyasu

The Linux Foundation
Tel: +81-80-4350-1133
Twitter: nori_fukuyasu
Facebook: linuxfoundationjp

Please visit our web sites:


Re: Use cases behind CIP story

Paul Sherwood
 

On 2016-09-15 16:23, Noriaki Fukuyasu wrote:
I think this is an extremely helpful post.

Why dont we start bring the stories of "Linux in the civil
infrastructures in the world" together, and start a series of blog
posts at the CIP website?
I'd personally prefer to see the discussion start on this list, rather than blog posts, since that way people can question, comment and discuss.

If people/companies are willing to contribute the stories, I would be
more than happy to set up a blog section to the CIP web.
I would be very interested in hearing & promoting the use cases
regardless of members and non-members. 
I'd recommend that blog posts can distill from and summarise the list discussion.

Then, we can talk about those stories at the events we are
participating in.
Agreed.


Re: Introduction

Paul Sherwood
 

On 2016-09-15 09:30, Agustin Benito Bethencourt wrote:
I'm now adding another part-time role as lead kernel maintainer for the
CIP. I look forward to working with you all to establish a project and
process that can extend the support lifetime even further.

Ben.
Welcome to the CIP project. It's great to have such an experienced maintainer
in the project. Looking forward to working with you too!
Daniel, can you tell us a little about yourself?

My name is Agustín Benito Bethencourt. I represent Codethink at CIP.
I've managed teams-programs-projects for some years ago, the last in
the open.

I am looking forward to find out how we are going to deal with this
outstanding challenge, keeping a Linux system alive and healthy for
many years in mission critical environments. I think it is an exciting
one.
To introduce myself, I'm CEO at Codethink, but to the best of my ability I'll be commenting here from a personal perspective, independent of Codethink's official involvement in CIP.

To start the ball rolling, I'm personally worried about how we are actually going to achieve super-long-term-support and am happy that we can discuss the issues in public.

Greg K-H, Ben Hutchings and others have contributed a huge amount to Long Term Stable and followon initiatives in the community over the years. But when I first started exploring how things like LTS and LTSI can work for embedded and automotive in 2012/2013, I hit some fundamental questions, not least - how in practice can a complex embedded project consume a 'stable' kernel that's being released ** every couple of weeks ** with the words 'users of this series must upgrade'? I presented some work at an automotive GENIVI event in Oct 2013 [1] but the audience at that time literally refused to accept that the idea of whole-of-life updates.

And as Greg said at the time:

"The patches that apply for stuff after 2 years drops off dramatically, and the work involved in keeping stuff working and testing for problems increases greatly.”

Just yesterday there was a very interesting post about backports and long term stable kernels on LWN [2]. Greg is quoted there considering:

"But if we didn't provide an LTS, would companies constantly update their kernels to newer releases to keep up with the security and bugfixes? That goes against everything those managers/PMs have ever been used to in the past, yet it's actually the best thing they could do."

I've been recommending the constant update route route to customers over the last few years, with some success, but many ecosystem members are extremely uncomfortable with the whole idea of aligning with mainline. I think this is broadly because as embedded engineers we've learned over many years that it's best to change the platform as little as possible. I wrote an article trying to challenge this traditional embedded thinking earlier this year [3]

Would be very interested in others' thoughts on this.

br
Paul

[1] http://www.devcurmudgeon.com/pdfs/mainline-lts-ltsi-genivi-20131025.pdf
[2] https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/700557/091f804480fab479/
[3] http://www.devcurmudgeon.com/technical-debt-for-whole-systems.html


Re: Introduction

Paul Sherwood
 

On 2016-09-15 17:17, Paul Sherwood wrote:
<snip>
Just yesterday there was a very interesting post about backports and
long term stable kernels on LWN [2]. Greg is quoted there considering:
Oops - I gave the wrong link:

https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/700530/7f1c21b0fd40489e/

"But if we didn't provide an LTS, would companies constantly update
their kernels to newer releases to keep up with the security and
bugfixes? That goes against everything those managers/PMs have ever
been used to in the past, yet it's actually the best thing they could
do."

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